Trapped!
Where exactly did John Jones get stuck?
"They [Jones and his brother] proceeded to a tight, nasty, passage beyond the well-known Bob’s Push. The passage is mostly belly-crawl size and undulates up and down before taking a decisive turn to the left and downward. The remainder of the passage to its dead-end is very tight and slopes downward at about a 60 degree angle."
— Andy Armstrong, Cave Rescue (Incident Report)
"The spot he is stuck is known as Ed's Push and is described to be 125 feet below and about 700 feet away from the cave's entrance, requiring someone to meander through numerous confined spaces. The actual area in which he is trapped is described as being 18 inches wide and just 8 to 10 inches tall."
— Sam Penrod and Marc Giauque (KSL News)
"The Birth Canal is the most popular portion of the cave. Now where John went, was about 8-10 feet further down the cave, and on the opposite wall. But there was a well marked hole, known as the Birth Canal, everyone wanted to try to make it up through. It was an uphill kind of climb."
— Michael Leavitt, Cave Access Manager, Nutty Putty (RadioWest Interview)
"After reading the articles and hearing the news stories, much of the information regarding his location were not reported accurately. John was exploring a passage that is not on the map and you have to go out of your way to locate it and try to crawl. Very few people have been up there and he was crawling along head first."
— Michael Leavitt, Cave Access Manager, Nutty Putty (Nutty Putty Site)
"I am told that the crawl in which John was trapped does not start out going steeply down, but rather goes, in, up, and around a bend before turning downward at a steep angle. Anyone with an affinity for crawls might have gone into and pushed such a passage, hoping to find a new part of the cave, or larger passage beyond. There are apparently several additional constrictions within the body-tight passage, however."
— Bill Putnam, NSS Chairman (Cavechat Forum)
"The group split into two, with several children and some adults staying behind in the less treacherous area while some others went looking for "an adventure" in the more advanced parts of the cave."
— Josh Jones, Brother of Jones (Salt Lake Tribune)
"John got stuck in the single worst spot in the cave, head down a 70 degree slope, and unable to get himself out. Add to that the tight squeeze to get into that spot at the end of 50′ of crawling through a tube narrow enough to induce a panic attack in many ordinary people."
— Shaun Roundy, Cave Rescue (Nutty Putty Site)
"This particular area is very, very difficult ... where the cave peters out to virtually nothing,"
— Lt. John Valentine, Cave Rescue (WJW News)
"Jones didn't get stuck in the 'birth canal', he got stuck in a small offshoot down near 'Ed's push'. This offshoot is located in one small corner of the cave, and is very out of the way."
— Jessica J (KSL News Comments)
"Was there a back entrance to the tunnel? No, it ended shortly after the crack where John was stuck."
— Lindsay Whitehurst (Salt Lake Tribune)
Was the passage on the survey map?
Both maps combined with the general location.
"It is more clearly shown on the 1965 map than the newer 2004 offering. But even still, the 1965 map rendering is just a best guess because that passage was so small that it was never fully explored."
— Michael Leavitt, Cave Access Manager, Nutty Putty (Nutty Putty Site)
"Through the years it [Nutty Putty] had been mapped a couple of different times, so the passages were documented- and there were a few passages, such as the one that John Jones was in, that were never put onto the map. The hole was put into the map, but the passageway wasn't put on, because we didn't want to promote anybody going up there!"
— Michael Leavitt, Cave Access Manager (RadioWest Interview)
Were there any indications not to traverse the passage?
"In that cave, if people explored it, there was black limestone- worn paths everywhere. If it wasn't explored, it was covered with a dusty dirt. That was a passage that very few people went up, and nobody of his [Jones] size went up- you had to be smaller than that. The person that did know the passage well, Brandon Kowallis... much, much smaller."
— Michael Leavitt, Cave Access Manager (RadioWest Interview)
"This [signs and plaques] was discussed in the past and was rejected because this was a wild cave. Obviously there is good reason to reconsider that decision if times change and recreational caving is ever allowed in the cave again."
— Michael Leavitt, Cave Access Manager (Nutty Putty Site)
Have other people been stuck in the passage?
"In August 2004, Brock Clark got stuck in the same tunnel of Nutty Putty Cave that trapped John Jones five years later. 'I was headfirst, worming my way through these tiny passages because I wanted to see what was in there. I kept going and going, tighter and tighter', he said.
Clark decided to turn around when he came to the end of a level area, before the tunnel dropped back down. But as he drew his legs beneath him to move them behind his body, he discovered he didn't have enough room. He found himself folded nearly in half, with one leg stuck underneath the other and his torso semi-suspended over the hole. He tried for an hour to free himself, but only wedged himself farther. He started to panic.
Clark felt his body start to go numb, first his legs, then his arms. Search-and-rescue crews tossed Clark a webbed rope and he managed to wrap it around his body. Rescuers pulled, but it only banged Clark against the walls of the cave. Clark was finally freed with the assistance of a pulley system.
Lactic acid had built up in his muscles after hours of holding his body up. He spent three days in a hospital recovering and suffered nerve damage in his leg and arm."
— Linedsay Whitehurst (Salt Lake Tribute)
"Jones pushed himself 14 feet past a spot where another spelunker gotten themselves stuck and THAT rescue was a tough one."
— Ralph E. Powers, Caver (Cavechat Forum)
"We had somebody else who was stuck back in there, in I think 2006... Brock Davis, was stuck in the exact location. Smaller, only 16 years old, young guy."
— Michael Leavitt, Cave Access Manager (RadioWest Interview)
"People have reportedly been stuck at some of these points in the past, well before the point where John was found."
— Bill Putnam, NSS Chairman (Cavechat Forum)
"Two Boy Scouts had become trapped within a week of each other. In one of the cases, rescue crews took 14 hours to free a 16-year-old Scout — who weighed 140 pounds and was 5’7″ tall, making him much smaller than John — using a complex series of pulleys."
— William DeLong (All That's Interesting)
"Six years ago, when a 16-year old boy got stuck in the same tunnel that trapped John. It took crews 14 hours to free him, and the teen spent three days in a hospital afterward. A pulley system freed the 5-foot-7-inch-tall, 140-pound teen in 2004, but John was bigger, farther down the tunnel, and rescuers could only reach about 6 inches of his legs."
— Lindsay Whitehurst (Salt Lake Tribune)
Why did Jones traverse the passage?
"He [Jones] was apparently lost. He thought he was in Bob's Push, but was mistaken. He thought he did know what was at the bottom, but it turns out he was in a small dead-end passage. There are very tight squeezes just to get to where he was. That's the excuse for 'the rescue being too dangerous'. Supposedly there is a risk of rescuers getting similarly stuck just getting to where he is."
— RockMonkey, Cave Rescue Relative (RME4X4 Forum)
"The rest is hard to explain unless I can use my hands, but for simplicity sake: We had a map of the cave and got to a part where we couldn't find where it continued, so we each took a route that looked like it could be the right way. It is this part of the story that I keep recalling over and over in my head, because at this point I asked John if he wanted to explore the spot, which we later would learn is called the 'Ed's Push' area."
— Joey Stocking, Caver with Jones (Personal Blog)
"At some point the decision was made to split the group and 26 year old John and his 23 year old Trip Leader brother decided to explore the passage that is not on the newer surveyed map. The access is tiny and there is no indication that it leads to anywhere. Due to the long closure and little traffic through the cave in the past few years it is now very easy to see well traveled passages. Dust/dirt covers everything that has not received visitors. Traveled passages are indicated by polished black stone. It is like night and day between traveled areas of the cave and untraveled areas of the cave. We will never know why the decision was made to force themselves into the really small untraveled passage other than the sense of adventure.
Since they had never visited the cave before I cannot figure why they went off map. They had not been in the cave long enough to visit all the wonderful parts of the Birth Canal and even Chris's Crawl. I could understand if they had been to the cave so many times that they were bored with the mapped portions of the cave, but it takes a few trips even with the experienced guides to explore all of the wonderful mapped passages in the cave. Why go off map? All of this was new to the group and there was no reason to go off map."
— Michael Leavitt, Cave Access Manager (Open Letter to Cavers)
"John was qualified. I'm sure he went into this passage hoping it was going to open up into one of the larger rooms."
— Michael Leavitt, Cave Access Manager (NBC News)
"Very few people would have made the choice to crawl down that passage head-first, regardless of their level of caving experience. We will never know what was going through John’s mind when he made that decision. He eventually saw his error, but it was too late. While being stuck underground is always a serious situation, cavers need to be extremely careful to avoid getting stuck in an inverted position. Because John was upside-down, the clock was ticking, and there was not enough time to get him out."
— Andy Armstrong, Cave Rescue (Incident Report)
"John and Josh broke off with two friends to find a challenge: a tight but navigable passage called the Birth Canal. They split up, wriggling into alcoves and passages to look for it. John picked a waist-high hole to explore. John went in headfirst, pushing himself along with his hips, his stomach, his fingers. Other cavers exploring this hole had found that only the nimblest of contortionists could navigate its tight corkscrew of rock. John found no place big enough to turn his body around and leave the tunnel. So he kept going, likely thinking he was in the Canal."
— Lindsay Whitehurst (Salt Lake Tribune)
"About an hour into the caving expedition, John decided to find the Nutty Putty Cave formation known as the Birth Canal, a tight passage that spelunkers must crawl through carefully if they dare. He found what he thought was the Birth Canal and inched his way into the narrow passage head first, moving forward using his hips, stomach, and fingers. But within minutes, he realized he’d made a grave mistake."
— William DeLong (All That's Interesting)
How did Jones get stuck in the passage?
"John did something that most experienced cavers would probably not do (or hopefully learn not to do) - he entered a body-tight crawl-way head first without being sure that he could turn around or back out. That can be fatal, even if the passage is completely horizontal, because any entrapment leaves you in full-body contact with the cave walls and floor, leading directly to hypothermia. This can and does happen even in moderate temperatures (60-70 degrees F) such as those found in Nutty Putty Cave. The classic case of death by hypothermia in a cave is that of Floyd Collins, and every caver should know that story and be mindful of it.
From the accounts of his companions, I gather that John had some awareness of his predicament before becoming completely stuck, and was already struggling to try to back up and out of the passage when he lost his grip and slipped further in. As I understand it, at that point he was already several body lengths into the passage beyond the first major constriction - the place where a previous rescue had occurred. Why he chose to push forward so far before deciding to back out can probably never be known, but it is a tragic lesson for all cavers. This could have happened to any one of us who made the decision to push on in hopes of virgin cave, or in the expectation of finding a turn-around spot. It is not fair to blame John for doing something that most of us have also done at some point in our caving careers - going a bit too far before deciding to back out."
— Bill Putnam, NSS Chairman (Cavechat Forum)
"John entered the passage head-first and continued head-first at least 30 feet down the steep, tight section. At some point, he realized he could not back out against the force of gravity. John sent the others out of the passage and continued downward, hoping to find a place to turn around. The others soon heard him yelling that he was stuck and needed help.
John made several mistakes. At 6 feet tall, and 190 lbs. he was very large for the passage he was in. None of the rescuers of John’s size were able to get anywhere near him. He elected to crawl head-first down a tight, nearly vertical passage. The passage dead-ends and offers nowhere to turn around. It is the type of passage that most cavers would enter feet-first in order to be able to escape, if they entered it at all. If John had been right-side-up, the rescuers would have had much more time to work, and he would likely be alive today.
It is believed by most of the rescuers that on his crawl downhill, John must have slipped and popped through the tightest part of the passage with the aid of gravity. Otherwise it is difficult to see how he could have made it through such a tight spot. John had retrograde amnesia when first contacted by rescuers, supporting the idea that he may have fallen through and hit his head."
— Andy Armstrong, Cave Rescue (Incident Report)
"If you're going to go into an uncharted passage, think about it for a moment! Are you going to go in head first? Unless you're tied up from behind where somebody can pull you back out when you get into some place where there's no turnaround? In this case, John went up a passage, and we're talking a long passage. And he went up and he got stuck in a place where somebody had been rescued before- where Brock had been rescued.
When Josh [brother] came up near him, and they made the decision together, for him to maybe possibly go a little further, and maybe find a room where he could turn around and come back out, face first... That was a horrible decision! If he had just stayed where he was, rescuers could have got him out. And the fact that he was 14-feet further into that cave than anyone had ever been before. Nobody had ever been over that little ledge.
Then he was wedged in with a rock under his rib-cage, and one arm and a head through the passage, and uggh... that makes you shudder. You would normally go into a passage like that feet first, so that as you realize this doesn't go anywhere, you could easily make it back out."
— Michael Leavitt, Cave Access Manager (RadioWest Interview)
"As the rescuers related to me, John never would have made it through all of the twist and turns backwards. He made it quite a ways head first and was probably feeling a great deal of success until the final downward slide from which he couldn’t return."
— Michael Leavitt, Cave Access Manager (Nutty Putty Site)
"He [Jones] went in to the spot face first because he was climbing up, but then it curved and started heading downwards, then it got too small for him to push himself backwards up against gravity, so he slid down further and became wedged."
— Joey Stocking, Caver with Jones (Personal Blog)
"It basically got to a point where we were trying to figure out if the cave went any further, and that's the route John decided to take. He thought he could kind of keep going on his belly down further, but it got to point where he couldn't go any further and he got wedged in."
— Joey Stocking, Caver with Jones (Salt Lake Tribune)
"Jones pushed himself 14 feet past a spot where another spelunker gotten themselves stuck and THAT rescue was a tough one. Of course Jones most likely didn't know that but either way if he was as experienced as sources say then he would've known better.
He went too far and beyond his own limits. He should've stopped when he had to strain and push and tried something easier. But he didn't... and the result was fatal."
— Ralph E. Powers, Caver (Cavechat Forum)
"John unexpectedly found himself head-first, upside down, up against a dead-end, completely immobilized, unable to get himself out."
— Jones Family, Relatives (Nutty Putty Cave Site)
"When he [Jones] saw a fissure that dropped nearly straight down in front of him, it may have appeared to widen out at the bottom, giving him a spot to turn around. Rescuers believe John sucked in his chest to investigate the fissure, sliding his torso over a lip of rock and down into the 10-inch-wide side of the crevice. But when his chest expanded again, he was stuck. Struggling to free himself only made John slide deeper into the narrower, 8 1/2-inch-wide side of the fissure. One arm was pinned underneath him, the other forced backward by an outcropping of rock. The rainbow headlamp bounced off. Instead of widening so John could get out, the crack narrowed and all but closed."
— Lindsay Whitehurst (Salt Lake Tribune)
"John knew he was now just about stuck and had no room to turn around. He didn’t even have room to wriggle back out the way he’d come. He had to try to press forward. He tried to exhale the air in his chest so that he could fit through a space that was barely 10 inches across and 18 inches high, about the size of the opening of a clothes dryer. But when John inhaled again and his chest puffed back out, he got stuck for good. John’s brother was the first to find him. Josh tried to pull at his brother’s calves to no avail. But then John slid down into the passage even further, becoming trapped worse than before. His arms were now pinned beneath his chest and he couldn’t move at all."
— William DeLong (All That's Interesting)
"He had come to a dead end. He was attempting to back out of the tight spot when his hand slipped and he plummeted headfirst with arms extended to catch himself into a five-foot deep narrow tube about 12 inches in diameter at a 70-degree angle."
— Bishop and Momma Pete, Jones in-laws (Cavechat Forum)
How did other cavers describe the area and experience?
"That's the only dangerous place in the whole cave. I got down enough so my feet weren't quite sticking up the hole, and I realized I couldn't back out of this. There was no way to push, and I couldn't get a grip with my feet. I was slanted upside down and started to get a little worried. He [friend] kept pulling and pulling and finally I just popped out. I never went back to that section again. I don't want anything to do with it."
— Dale Green, Nutty Putty Discoverer (KSL News)
"Your advice to go feet first is very wise and yet not really practical for long yet unexplored passages because you have to be able to see your options as you crawl through. If you were really set on exploration of unmapped passages, then you would probably rig up the tiniest and strongest person in the group with a harness and ropes so that he/she could be easily retrieved and do it as a group exploration project. Then you would send the rigged little guy carefully into the passage always being able to get them back out. John Jones was involved in solo free exploring without any rigging."
— Michael Leavitt, Cave Access Manager (Nutty Putty Site)
"Anyone familiar with Nutty Putty, knows there are two distinct sections. Not far inside, you have to make a choice which section you'll explore. One is down a long, steep chute that bends to the right at the bottom and leads to Bob's Push where Brother Jones perished. This area is 100+ feet below ground. I've always thought this leg of the cave was boring and I rarely visited. This is where all the rescues have taken place. This part of the cave is very, very different from the other branch.
The other option is to go left before going down the steep chute. Here you will find a series of several 'rooms' the wrap around on top and under each other, all leading to the Big Room and more rooms beyond. This area is all within 30 of the surface, and is very well ventilated. Here there are many beautiful formations and an abundance of the famous 'nutty putty' for which this cave is named. This more popular part of the cave could easily be preserved for future visitors while sealing off the half that contains the deceased remains."
— Dean Hale, Caver (Deseret News Comments)
"The popular cave attracted about 5,000 to 10,000 people a year, despite its remote access point at the top of a hill west of State Road 68. On Friday, a draft of warm, moist air drifted out of the moss-lined entrance at the top of the cave as if the earth were exhaling. It was named for its soft brown "nutty putty" clay, which is found nowhere else in the country, said Mike Leavitt, the leader of the caving group Timpanogos Grotto. Because it is has no long rappels, it's a popular spot for beginner and intermediate cavers. 'It is special in its own way,' he [Leavitt] said. 'There are many safe parts of the cave, and there are extreme parts'."
— Lindsay Whitehurst (Salt Lake Tribune)
"I have been through Nutty Putty many times and there is always the potential for danger in any activity. Just initially getting into the cave is a very tight squeeze and I had a friend get stuck there once. A friend and I got stuck in (what I believe) to be the very same place John was trapped. It is up past the birth canal and you have to worm your way through a very tight tunnel about 10-15 feet and then negotiate a very tight 90 degree turn. Once you get around the turn the small tunnel turns left and slopes down. I'm 6'5 and I believe I was around 210 lbs at the time when a buddy of mine and I got stuck there (him more so than I). We were only stuck for 20 minutes or so."
— Scott C (KSL News Comments)
"When you come up from Bob's Push you have the Birth Canal above your head, the area is to the left of that room. You squeeze through a tight area and find a small hole in a wall. About 50 feet into that hole you come to the dead end. Most people don't know that it exists and that is why there haven't been far most situations like this before. My younger brother was stuck there upside down for 3 hours in 2003 and it was the most terrifying hours as we desperately tried to free him. Fortunately for my brother things went right and he came out with only cuts and bruises. I realize now just how lucky we all were that night."
— Dave T (KSL News Comments)
"The Birth canal is the entrance passage that goes into the chamber which leads to the Aorta canal (through the hole in the top of that chamber) and the 'L-turn' is at the end of the Aorta. Those spots definitely do not have any incline or decline. There wouldn't be a spot to be trapped upside down. The birth canal is CONSIDERABLY wide compared to the Aorta. What may have occurred is this: He went through the Aorta, went into the bottom of the chambers after the L-turn, and got stuck there. I have gone into those chambers and there are definitely some tight spots that are very steep."
— Rooster21 (KSL News Comments)
"I have been in the cave a bunch of times. It can be a super fun outing if you're careful. When ever you go down one of the many tight fingers in the cave you always have to go FEET FIRST! If not you'll get stuck in many different places."
— Stephen M (KSL News Comments)
"I have gone spelunking at nutty putties on a number of occasions. Very easy to get into trouble if you're not super careful. I fell down a hole there and caught myself luckily. I am not claustrophobic by any means but that birth canal just about made me panic. And I was skinny 16 year old girl when I went through it."
— Zoo Cats (KSL News Comments)
"Yeah. That birth canal is a pain. I've taken about a half dozen Scout troops to Nutty Putty. I stopped going through the birth canal years ago. I just point and tell them to let me know when their ready to come back. It's NOT a comfortable situation. There is one way in to the cave, and one way out. The video shows images of just the opening of the cave. The Birth Canal is even smaller though similar to the cave itself there is only one way in and one way out. The Birth Canal is the entrance to Bob's Push (Just a big room with some rock formations to look at: mostly popcorn corral)."
— The Voice of Reason (KSL News Comments)
"I remember back when I was 19 and I went to the nutty putty caves with some friends. I had no idea we would be going underground and doing army crawls on our belly to get inside. I was more than scared when we got to the part of the 'birth canal'. All I could think in my mind was if there is an earthquake right now we would all be buried alive and no one would even know we are here."
— ScooterGirl (KSL News Comments)
"I went through the birth canal and at one point I remember looking at an opening and saying 'no way.' I got out and stayed where I could move freely."
— Cankerpuss (KSL News Comments)
"I've been in this cave a dozen times (3 times with a group of 20 or more) and never had a problem. I know the spot where this guy got stuck and believe me, he knew it wasn't a good idea to go where he went."
— Matt N (KSL News Comments)
"I've been in the nutty putty caves at least 20 times, its a pretty safe place as long as you stay in the main areas, its the birth canal that is so dangerous, thats the area that should be closed off. not the whole cave."
— Jared36 (KSL News Comments)
"I've been up in that same space a few times. 'the birth canal' isn't all that bad, it's just that the entrance to that passage is in the roof, and there is a 90 degree turn a few feet in that can be hard to navigate if you're tall."
— Vinney (KSL News Comments)
"I explored Nutty Putty as a Boy Scout back in the day when you didn't need a permit. I recall very vividly the 'birth canal.' Even as a zit faced teenager I had a heck of a time shimmying through that part. It was fun spelunking the cave but it wasn't really that interesting. It was dirty dark and fairly cramped. I was extremely glad to get out of that thing and into the open air."
— Cankerpuss (KSL News Comments)
"Whenever we did the birth canal we left our packs at the entrance of the passage and just took the light attached to our helmets. There are places in that passage that you could get food and water around a stuck person, but right at the end it gets tight enough that a big person could completely block the passage. It doesn't take a real fat guy to get stuck, last time I did the birth canal I was 6'2 and 210 and I couldn't crawl with my arms underneath me at the end, I had to crawl with them above my head."
— Climberpete (KSL News Comments)
"When you first go up through the birth canal, you come into a little room. Looking INTO the room you can go through a crack in the wall to the left and it leads to an area where there is a perfectly round hole in the wall. If you can manage to get into that hole and around the 90 degree turn 8ft up into that hole it then winds again down to the left. A buddy of mine and I got stuck there once (I'm 6'5) and it was pretty scary. It could happen to anyone and that would be terrifying."
— Scott C (KSL News Comments)
"I don't think people realize how tight it is down there, especially Bob's Push. I was able to get through half of Bob's Push before I got stuck. Fortunately I realized I wasn't going in any further and backed out (and waited in the dark with a little mouse!) To describe Bob's Push... it's a hole in the wall, maybe 12-18 inches by about 20-24 inches that is angled up and to the left. It then angles down and to the right before it straightens out a bit. In order to get through it, you have to push your body (you can't use your arms because they have to be extended fully in front of you) using your legs. You get through the first half on your back, so you can bend around the turn, then when the downward angle happens, you have to spin your body 180 degrees to get through the next part."
— Nfteblj (KSL News Comments)
"I remember getting to a tight spot called the birth canal, aptly named because of its tight circumference and long narrow tube which terminated in a womb like room. It was the most uncomfortable part of the trip and I recall thinking, I'm not doing that again!"
— Brooke Neal, Caver (Nutty Putty Site)
"I was one of the people there... I don't know why the news media is saying he is in the birth canal... he is in the bottom of Ed's Push... he got stuck on his way in... the opening to the beginning of the tunnel is plenty big enough but you have to go head first up and over a 'L' shaped tunnel with a 45 degree angle on each side... once he was on the other side... he realized to late that it was too tight a fit... he was stuck before he knew to turn back.
Despite its notoriety, the birth canal is no problem for someone his size (I'm just slightly lighter and shorter and it isn't even a close call for me to make it through with no problem.) It looks smaller than it is due to the angle you see it from. The entrance is near the floor with a slight incline and the rock overhangs the entrance a bit to make it look tiny.
However, once you are inside of the chamber that the birth canal opens up into, there is some tighter stuff you can explore. There is a hole above you that most people probably don't even realize is there. You climb up for 10 or 15 feet and then it connects to a horizontal tube that goes a couple hundred feet. I can see getting stuck turning the corner between the vertical shaft and horizontal tube if you turned wrong. My guess is he's in something similar to that (or maybe even the same spot)."
— Unknown (Deseret News Comments)
On your combined map (1965 and 2004), the passage where he died is marked incorrectly. The comments say that this was beyond Ed's push and that the 2004 map shows the entrance to this part of the cave, but does not show the rest of the passage.
ReplyDeleteIn another comment on the Internet I read: "Not sure if this is still a live thread. I was forwarded a map with a pencil drawing of the unmapped area where John is and it appears to be a crevasse starting off of and below Edds push heading off to the left and downward away from the "scout eater" area that is found in the birth canal So about 150' from the end of Edds push."
So if you look at the 1965 map, then Ed's push area is at the very end at the bottom. And to the right of this area and downwards there is a narrow passage. This is the lowest point on the map. I'm sure that's where John got stuck. So this place on the 2004 map is also marked as the entrance to a certain area, you can see it as a worm like appendage on the map.
They should now remove his remains.
ReplyDeleteNope. Leave the idiot where he is
DeleteNo class at all no respect just a douch bag
DeleteI want to know about the angels and demons he said he saw to the rescuers.
ReplyDeleteExtremely common phenomena when people are experiencing neurological issues as he would’ve been. We do not have information on what he experienced just that he mentioned seeing/hearing angels and demons once the blood pooling got significant
Delete